There is no indolent retirement waiting at the end of PM Lee's 20-year premiership.

In a pair of wide-ranging interviews in English and Mandarin at the Istana on Apr. 26 and 28, the outgoing prime minister spoke about his plans.

They're not concrete yet. He might work on his photography skills. Or spend time with his grandkids.

But within the realm of politics, his intentions are clear: his successor must take the lead.

The 72-year-old acknowledged that as Senior Minister, he can offer his experience and views, as well as the benefit of his long-wrought political network.

But in the end, PM-to-be Wong will have to "lead in [his] own way".

"I said, I will be here to do my best to help you succeed.

[But] you have to be your own person. You have to make the decisions."

Taking the arrows

What about outside of duties as a counsellor and advisor? Previous senior ministers, as one interviewer noted, have historically dealt with matters of foreign policy and diplomacy.

"Well, I hope that the people I know, the network of leaders I have met and who know me, will still be there for some time," PM Lee quipped.

Many of his counterparts abroad are — like him — "getting old too, and getting on". He named several: Angela Merkel (Germany), Tony Blair (UK), Jokowi (Indonesia), all but one of whom have since retired, with Jokowi stepping down later this year.

But PM Lee said that he will nonetheless remain at his successor's disposal.

"Specific, sensitive policy, that is up to the Prime Minister to decide," he said.

"If he arrows me to do it, I will take the arrow."

Upskilling

All the same, stepping down is likely to come with a bit more breathing room. There are few vocations more demanding than being the leader of a nation, after all.

In his free time, PM Lee hopes he'll be able to sign up for a few SkillsFuture courses and work on photography and even learn how to use AI.

"Or maybe I will go on a course on how to appear on TV and be interviewed and look relaxed," he quipped.

Reading is also on his list of post-PM activities, with one book in particular — The Great Flowing River, by Taiwanese author Chi Pangyuan — on his to-read list.

"Before entering politics, you may have opportunities to read and gain more knowledge. During your years in politics, you put that knowledge to use," he said in Mandarin.

"But perhaps you don’t get as many chances to learn new things, and your knowledge bank slowly runs dry...so maybe I’ll have more chances to do so after I step down."

Last but not least, he hopes to spend more time with his grandchildren.

The statesman doesn't often talk about his grandchildren. In 2019, he made headlines after being seen picnicking at the Botanic Gardens, cooing at a toddler believed to be his grandchild.

But at the interview, he opened up — if only briefly — about his joy in looking after them, and watching them grow.

"They are still young now and grow quickly," he told his interviewers.

"Every time you meet them, they'll have already learnt new things and new speeches. They'll use new words and ask new questions."

The father-of-four believes that he might have seen this same pattern when his own children were young.

"But this was 30, 40 years ago, and I might have forgotten some details. Or I was too young myself and not experienced, so I didn’t notice all these," he admitted.

"Now, I have a second chance at this. It's very fulfilling."

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Photo from PM Lee's Facebook/PMO and MCI